It’s far and away the stupidest thing Christians say. I can’t prove there aren’t mermaids or ogres either. It doesn’t mean anything at all. If not being able to disprove something means anything you’ll have a lot of crazy stuff you’ll have to allow for. Pete the God Eating Penguin is just one of them.
Let’s face it, no one can prove Pete doesn’t exist. So he must. That’s the logic here.
Well, that leads to a problem. If Pete exists, he would have eaten God by now. That’s what Pete does. So even if God did exist, he can’t exist anymore.
I wish I would have thought of this on my own. I’d like to thank Willie, who’s an old friend in Austin for the idea.
“It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true.”
And that my friends is why the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Until they have some evidence to back that claim, there’s no reason to think it might be true.
Galatians 5:1-3 ASV (1) For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage. (2) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. (3) Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
I’ve mentioned that I don’t get the thing with Paul at all. Paul’s message is very different from Jesus. I really think the only reason he managed to make it into the Christian theology is they wanted a loophole to get away from the old laws that anyone with a brain can see are unreasonable and downright evil at times.
This is a great example. What Paul says here is that if you are circumscribed you are still beholding to that old law. I haven’t got a clue why he thinks this. Jesus never spoke against the practice. Heck, Jesus was circumcised
Luke 1:59 ASV (59) And it came to pass on the eighth day, that they came to circumcise the child; and they would have called him Zacharias, after the name of the father.
Got me what’s up here. Paul is saying that things that Jesus did are wrong. The real funny thing is most Christians who are willing to write off the old laws because of what Paul says about the New Covenant thing, but they are still circumcised which Paul says that he is now a “debtor to do the whole law” meaning that he’s stuck with the laws anyhow.
There’s no way to listen to Paul you don’t end up in these situations. Jesus never said the laws wouldn’t apply. In fact he says that the laws stand until Heaven and Earth pass very directly. Last I checked Earth is still here, and Paul is just making crap up out of thin air.
I realize the title is obvious, but I just ran across this lovely quote from Banana Boy.
Even Helen Keller, who was born blind and deaf, could see God. No doubt, in her silent darkness, every fragrant flower, every ray of the warm sun, every taste that touched her tongue told her that there was a God who created all things. Jodie Foster shouldn’t therefore be surprised that people are surprised that she’s an atheist.
Now in case you are wondering why I picked that one up, Helen Keller was a very outspoken non-believer. She may or may not have been an outright atheist. This is a pretty well known fact to anyone who knows anything at all about her. She was very against much o the teaching in the Bible and said so with enough regularity I’ve heard Christians railing against what she said many times.
How could you even consider using her as an example of knowing God?
What is it with Ray and his need to say profoundly stupid things on such a regular basis? I’ve often wondered if it was just an act. Is this guy just in it for the money? Is he just seeing how idiotic he can be and get away with it? I’d love to know. Hey Ray, if you ever read this go to the contact page and email me. I’d love to know and promise not to tell anyone.
I actually found this a bit surprising. But probably not for the reasons most atheists would. In an interview the Archbishop of Canterbury admitted to some fairly big doubts about God existing. This is a man at the top of millions of Christians. So naturally this has caused a bit of a stir.
My friends were shocked at his honesty. I really wasn’t. Many members of the clergy really do believe what they are selling. I know, it’s absurd and it’s hard to believe an educated person could believe it. Painting them all as con men is pretty easy because it makes more sense than having a grown, educated adult believe the silly things in the Bible. The ones who are honest will in private often admit their doubts. He was in an interview and directly asked. I’ve heard the guy in the debates with Richard Dawkins and he comes across as an honest guy to me. I really would expect that he would tell the truth on this one.
I see in on Yahoo Answers all the time. The number of questions that come up from doubting Christians doesn’t shock me a bit. What is shocking is the Christians always answer that this is totally normal. Not just a few either, it’s the most common answer by a wide margin. They pretty much all admit they doubt their position at least occasionally.
Now what really gets me about this…..
This is a guy who is famous for his faith. He’s got millions of followers and he wound up at the top of the heap. What shocks ME is that he has doubts. I’m shocked because as an atheist I never do.
The story in the Bible is crazy. I give it absolutely zero chance of being true. I don’t ever sit around and think “what if” because that isn’t even in the range of what has even a slight shot. It would seem to me that SOMEONE on the other side ought to be as sure as I am. This ought to be the guy if anyone is there. I mean is it really true that no Christian gets though life without sitting back and thinking “wow, this really is kinda stupid” to himself?
I mean it’s not just him either. We have people like Mother Teressa on the record as having doubts. Seriously….no one?
(11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. (12) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (13) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. (14) If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Theses are Jesus’s direct words according to John. There’s not “he sometimes says no” or anything else. Jesus says if you ask him for something he will do it. Reading further you’ll find it’s because the Father loves you because you keep his commandments.
So why didn’t Joyce get her puppy?
There aren’t many predictions that are in the Bible that are easy to test. Heck, I’d settle for it changing things in a statistically significant way. I mean Jesus says he’ll do anything, you’d think it would be simple to find some measurable difference.
Well they have done exactly this. They have had entire churches full of people praying for patients in a hospital with a control group and a double blind experiment. So, how did God make out? I mean to me this would clearly count as evidence there was a god if it worked. But if it doesn’t work, then Jesus was clearly mistaken or a lier. Either way it would mean he’s not what the Christians claim. So let’s get on with it, what did the experiment say.
According to a large study, praying for sick strangers has absolutely no effect on their health. In fact, it found that patients who had undergone heart surgery and knew that people were praying for their recovery had more health complications as a result.
That’s right folks. Jesus was wrong. You can try to twist the result around however you want. The line says what it says and there are similar lines a couple of other places. There’s nothing there that would enable it to be taken any other way. You can look at all the context you want.
There’s no measurable effect from praying at all. In fact, the prayer group did a little worse than the control once they knew about it. Oddly that’s come up in a couple of other experiments. When people pray for you, you figure you must really be sick and it adds stress and more post operation complications. The placebo effect can work both ways.
This is pretty easy to find other sources for. If you like the Times a little better they covered it too: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?ex=1301461200&en=4acf338be4900000&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
We get asked this all the time. It’s pretty simple really. How can we not laugh at you? It’s not like I really have a choice. I can’t have a rational conversation about rather a snake might have talked once. You’ve already proven to me that you can’t be rational if that’s your position. I realize that trying to give you logical, reasoned arguments about this is going to fall on deaf ears. How am I supposed to react?
I also can’t help but laugh. You are being gullible in a way that is impossible for me to imagine. It’s beyond the absurd. So it’s profoundly funny. I mean look at the picture….that’s exactly what the Bible is describing. I can’t not laugh.
I fully admit I’m out to change people’s minds about religion. I think it has consistently been one of the most destructive forces in the entire human experience. It’s one of the bigger causes of fighting. Look guys, fighting over who’s imaginary friend has a bigger penis isn’t something we want. It has stood in the way of science every time science finds something in your holy book that’s wrong. This has happened way more than it’s found you got something right.
So why don’t we try to make friends? That’s how the religious recruit. It’s their number one way to gain followers and we certainly are pushing you the other way by mocking you. Make friends, give the person a sense of belonging, and just reel them into the group. It totally works for them. How come we think it’s best to be different?
Well, it’s because belonging to a group isn’t the point. Notice what’s missing in the paragraph above? It isn’t about the truth. It’s about making the idea into something you want to be true. You want it so that you be a part of the wonderful “Good News” and so that you get to live forever. I’m not out for this. I don’t want you to belong to a group. I don’t want you to help recruit other atheists. I won’t make money off your conversion. There’s no control of your life or power in it for me. What I want is for YOU TO THINK. Think about the talking snake and how wrong the Bible is about how we got here. Think about the unicorns and dragons knocking stars out of the sky. Think about how it says the Earth has corners and sits on pillars. Think about guys living inside a fish or getting weak over a haircut.
Like I said, I know you aren’t open to rational discussion because you aren’t acting rationally. All I can really do is point and laugh. Maybe, just maybe that will get you to wonder if it isn’t silly. Maybe you will actually read the damn Bible for once and see how goofy it is. Maybe you’ll snap out of it. It’s all I can hope for.
So, a lot of other atheists are on this “Jesus wasn’t real.” kick. I find it counter productive.
My answer is “probably.” It is true that there aren’t any direct witnesses who wrote it down. That doesn’t mean the answer is no. It’s also true that there’s no hard evidence for him. There were people around recording events in the area like Philo of Alexandria. If there really was a Jew preaching to thousands and causing a stir at the Temple he would have noticed and recorded it.
The problem with the witnesses the Christians like to point to is pretty simple, they were all decades too late.
Josephus – Born 37 CE
Phlegon – Born about 80 CE
Tacitus – Born 56 CE
Pliny the Younger – Born 61 CE
Suetonious – Born about 69 CE
The Babylonian Talmud – 200CE
Lucian – Born 125 CE
Phlegon – 2nd century
It’s impossible to witness something that happened before you were born. None of them even actually claim they saw Jesus, so it was pointless anyhow. It just points out how desperate Christians are to find something that says they got anything right.
The problem with saying that Jesus wasn’t real should be pretty obvious however. These guys weren’t witnesses for Jesus. Heck, some of the references were probably hoaxes added in by Christians later. But they are pretty good sources that there were Christians in the first century. That’s close enough to say that there would have been people alive who would have known Jesus. So to me, it’s pretty hard to believe that there wasn’t a real Jesus. It’s a circumstantial case, but a damn good one.
Now I have no idea how close the story is. That leaves enough room to say that almost nothing you read about happened. Personally I doubt the entire crucifixion happened at all. I don’t know that it didn’t, but the stories are all over the place so I suspect that it didn’t.
This whole line is just a senseless distraction. I don’t see the point in bringing it up at all, even if you think this. It’s not a sure winner. It’s not something that’s easy to follow. It isn’t something that is helpful at all. But mostly, even guys like me think you are wrong. It poisons your case.
The only reason I might see to point it out is that this guy wasn’t impressive when he was alive. It’s pretty obvious that some of the story isn’t accurate or it would have been noticed. It does seem like this is just what you’d expect: A cult leader who’s fan club exaggerated things after his death and the whole thing got out of hand.
But I don’t even go there. It’s too complicated for the religious to follow.
2 Chronicles 13:13-18 KJV (13) But Jeroboam caused an ambushment to come about behind them: so they were before Judah, and the ambushment was behind them. (14) And when Judah looked back, behold, the battle was before and behind: and they cried unto the LORD, and the priests sounded with the trumpets. (15) Then the men of Judah gave a shout: and as the men of Judah shouted, it came to pass, that God smote Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah. (16) And the children of Israel fled before Judah: and God delivered them into their hand. (17) And Abijah and his people slew them with a great slaughter: so there fell down slain of Israel five hundred thousand chosen men. (18) Thus the children of Israel were brought under at that time, and the children of Judah prevailed, because they relied upon the LORD God of their fathers
They are killing off half a million Israelites here. These are the people God likes.
A half million….that about the same as a city the size of Fresno or Tucson. That’s more than the US lost in World War two. It ten times the casualties of Gettysburg and that took three days. It’s not even believable with modern weapons, let along swords.
Seriously…the point of the story here is that God is a prick, lets his own people get slaughtered in impossible numbers, doesn’t really care.
Here’s the best part of the article and it tells you all you really need to know
The car’s driver, 25-year-old Prionda C. Hill, told police she let go of the wheel shortly before the crash because “God told her he would take it from here,” according to the probable cause affidavit filed Thursday in Allen Superior Court.
No…she wasn’t drunk. There was some question about a Vicodin prescription, but that isn’t going to make you batshit insane like this.
Now here’s the thing, even you Christians see how asinine this is. But why? The Bible is filled with similar things and the person who lets God take over always wins. So how come you don’t believe her? God running someone over is nothing compared to Noah’s Flood. Maybe the guy really deserved smiting and Ms. Hill was just in the right place and all she did was let God take over just like she said.
Is there anyone that can give me a reason you should believe that God told some guy he would stay super-human strong if he didn’t cut his hair, but you shouldn’t believe this nutcase? Really…I want to know what you’d base that on.